The Troubles of Europe
ZELENKO: So, welcome, everyone, to the secondsession of todayï¿½s Council on Foreign Relations Symposium on the Future of Europe. This sessionis titled ï¿½The Troubles of Europe.ï¿½ Weï¿½ve already had quite a discussion about this,but we hope to go deeper on many of the issues. And remember, again, please completely turnoff your phones, not just on vibrate. And I would like to remind the members that thismeeting is on the record. Our distinguished guests today: To my leftis Pï¿½ter Balï¿½zs, director of the Center for European Neighborhood Studies at CentralEuropean University. And Pï¿½ter has an extensive career in government in Hungary and on theEU. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Anand Menon is professor of European politicsand foreign affairs at Kings College, London, and he has written extensively on contemporaryEurope. And finally, Heidi CreboRediker, senior fellowat the Council on Foreign Relations, and again, a distinguished career both across the privateand public sectors, including almost two decades as a senior investment banker in Europe, andpositions in the State Department and in Congress. So thank you for joining us.I would be remiss not to start this conversation with todayï¿½s tragedy in Brussels. It hasraised to the forefront a number of issues that we had planned to discuss, includingBrexit, including Schengen, the issue of combatting
terrorism, and, of course, the migrant crisis.So my first question for you, Pï¿½ter, is, how can the EU simultaneously protect Schengen,clamp down on terrorists, and have a humane migrant policy, and all the while try to keepthe economy growing? BALï¿½ZS: OK. I think this is the kind ofquestion what we call the impossible trilemma. We have several such trilemmas. You cannotsolve all the questions at the same time. I think the most urgent and the most pressingproblem is the refugee crisis, where we have found a way out of the actual situation withthe help of German diplomacy, the Dutch presidency of the Council. With willingness and opennessof Turkey, we have accepted that indicated
solution which is full with problems alongthe whole way. I think Schengen can only function as a wholesystem. You cannot take out parts. You cannot put up small fences along the route of therefugees. We have to save Schengen for the benefit of the European Union.Now, I had the privilege to work in various European institutions, and my conclusion isthat we are excellent at solving selfmade problems. We create a common currency, thenit gets in trouble. We sit around, and then we find the solution. We create or we seta fantastic objective of drafting a constitution, and then it fails. Then we find a way outand we call it Lisbon Treaty. And I could
go on with the kind of selfmade problems.We are in trouble when there is somebody else in the room out of the 28 member states, likeRussia or the refugees. Any external factor is turning upside down that mechanism whichis for internal burden sharing, for internal distribution of costs and benefits betweenand among the 28. It works sooner or later. For me, the Brexit is an internal problem.It is around the family table. The Greek problem used to be a family problem. The others youasked are partly external problems, and here start all the weaknesses of the EU.ZELENKO: So Heidi, can the EU adequately fight terrorism without at least considering suspendingSchengen? And if any level of Schengen were
changed or we see more border closings, howdoes that affect the economy? CREBOREDIKER: So I think, you know, justto take a step back, you know, a lot of the troubles of Europe that we talk about, whetheritï¿½s legacies of the crisis, macroeconomic problems that are still there, microeconomicproblems that are in the banking system, and that overall fragility that the crisis left,layered on with the migrant crisis and now a real sense that you have core parts of whatwas the European idea coming apart, my firm belief is that these are all so interrelatedand seem to be, at present, mutually negatively reinforcing themselves right now. And thatis showing up in what youï¿½re seeing in the